|
Post by pug on Feb 2, 2009 13:42:19 GMT
Ive come across an article from 2007 suggesting that around 700,000 pax travel on Hull trains service alone, between Hull and London every year. They are constantly trying to increase their daily services too. With the opening of a new runway at LHR could this free up space for an air service between HUY and LHR once more? Not only has hull got such a large number of movements but Grimsby and Scunthorpe are also poorly served.
By all accounts both online and people i know who used the AirUK service, the aircraft were always full and the route was popular... I am in absolutely no doubt that it would work again... What are the chances of it happening though?
|
|
|
Post by huytiger on Feb 2, 2009 15:19:26 GMT
Hull Trains have just had permission to increase their services from Hull to London to SEVEN departures per day. They had asked for it to be increased to eight. So pug is quite right there is plenty of demand out there, and a proportion of it currently using the train would doubtless wish to fly should such a service become available.
|
|
|
Post by pug on Feb 2, 2009 15:27:08 GMT
One thing restricting the Hull Trains frequency will be the track availability wont it? Im not sure of the technicalities but i assume it runs on a kind of slot system?
A study was done (which i cant find online at the moment) into feasibility of regional connections to london... HUY was one of the airports listed as potential as the train links were in excess of 3 hours. DSA was not featured in the possibilities. I think the others included Exeter and Plymouth...
|
|
|
Post by Humberside on Feb 2, 2009 15:58:34 GMT
Unfortuantely I cant ever see HUY-LHR returning. There are just many more possibilities that would be more profitable than a HUY service would be. No doubt the 3rd runway slots will be used for long haul services (depending on it's length) and/or short haul services transferred from the existing runways to allow new long haul services on them With regards to Hull Trains, they already have 7 daily departures to London - the announcement last week made their rights to operate the services more permanent. Also in that announcement was a decision to approve a daily Cleethorpes-London service, via Lincoln, providing conflicts with other services can be sorted out - which it is expected they will be humbertransport.blogspot.com/2009/01/hull-trains-guaranteed-7-trains-day-to.html
|
|
|
Post by pug on Feb 2, 2009 16:41:24 GMT
I suppose if it were to happen it would need support from the government which, considering their approach to short-haul travel, would be extremely unlikely. I do know that BE have expressed an interest in HUY among others when they were arguing for the 3rd runway and slots into LHR!
R.e the Cleethorpes service, i hope they retain the Hull Trains brand if they are branching out.
|
|
|
Post by Humberside on Feb 2, 2009 17:42:44 GMT
The Cleethorpes service would be with National Express East Coast. Just an extension of one of their two hourly Lincoln-London services. Well this one anyway. There are longer term aspirations from Hull Trains and also Grand Union for Cleethorpes to London services as well
Getting well away from the original topic but Hull Trains will most likely use local brands for non-Hull services. In the same announcement last week they had a Harrogate-London service rejected which would have gone under the First Harrogate Trains name
|
|
|
Post by pug on Feb 2, 2009 18:15:41 GMT
Going back to the airlink topic, assuming there are no restrictions placed on the new runway, would there be a 50% increase in capacity? I still think with that, there would be large scope for regional operators to come on board. It has to benefit the rest of the UK afterall (though in a perfect world)
If that was to happen whats to say Eastern wouldnt be interested in a HUY route? I dont believe it would have an effect on the AMS services as it would increase connections and more would likely use LHR as a gateway to London by air from this region...
|
|
|
Post by Humberside on Feb 2, 2009 21:51:15 GMT
I dont know if Eastern would be interested should they be able to get hold of slots. Flybe who you mentioned earlier and bmi would be the obvious candidates, but it would be such an unprecedented situation in the UK thats its hard to know who would be attracted to fly LHR-Regional UK, and who wouldnt be
I think any LHR would impact on the AMS, but not as severley as say a CDG service since there would be a higher volume of local traffic, and there are plans to improve rail links to Heathrow, such as Crossrail, that will improve it's attractiveness for passengers heading into central London. Though on the other hand rail services from the region to London will also improve making them more attractive
Hopefully in a few years we could sustain AMS+1 other hub service, in which case a LHR service could be sustained on connections and Thames Valley traffic alone. Though as I said earlier I cant see LHR returning to the Humberside departure screens on a regular basis any time soon
|
|
|
Post by huytiger on Feb 3, 2009 15:40:23 GMT
So if LHR is a no go for regional airports, what about resurrecting London City Airport for business flights from HUY?
|
|
|
Post by pug on Feb 3, 2009 15:56:29 GMT
Its all about the core catchment area, i would think that a 4xdaily Eastern service with a Jetstream 41 would work ok, its just priorities and Easterns dont seem to be setting up routes at its home airport.
Without wanting to thread drift, why exactly are Eastern not interested? They tried BRU from other airports, that route worked well with EuroDirect/Sabena for a number of years. CPH worked well for a number of years also. SOU could have links to the region due to the shipping industries. As far as im aware, Eastern can make money from very low load factors making thin routes more viable, perfect for Hull and Humbers business'.
Look at what they have tried before, GLA which didnt work, EDI which didnt work, a connection with BHD which was not direct and was stopped. None of those routes strike me as a perfect connection with this region...
Even in the 80's, when airtravel was nowhere near as day to dday as it is now, HUY had many commuter routes which seemed to work well.
I agree that KLM should not be put off from HUY by saturatiung the market, i believe a number of connections for the business and leisure traveller are important... Whilst ABZ has the Scandanavian connections for HUY pax, how about HUY having some for the ABZ pax?
|
|
|
Post by Humberside on Feb 3, 2009 21:15:03 GMT
With regards to LCY, it is full at peak times and apparently they dont want aircraft under 50 seats
My comment about Eastern and LHR was that I have no idea either way if they would ever do it or not. It would be so different from what they currently do in that LHR is far more congested than they are used to bringing operational problems, and also that extensive interline deals would be required - and they would need to be publicised extensively. Maybe they would be interested, maybe they wouldn't
I have often wondered if Eastern could make HUY-RTM work with a connection to ABZ. There a links between both Aberdeen and the Humber region to Rotterdam. I think Hull and Rotterdam maybe twin ports
If BRU was ever to be made work there would need to be at least an interline deal with Brussels Airlines.
|
|
|
Post by pug on Feb 4, 2009 13:10:43 GMT
I think RTM would be a non starter A-H, the AMS servive already serves that market well... I was thinking more SOU, as when ships leave they go to Rotterdam/Zebrugge and then onto Southampton before leaving the continent. Not sure how much business there would be for a SOU route, but im sure the crews catching ships in SOU wouldnt use AMS to connect...
I agree on that one, are there any Brussels Airlines franchise carriers? Out of interest, how well did that route do? I am assuming well as it was about to go thrice daily with a bigger a/c.
I do think that perhaps management dont want to put KLM off by introducing too much competing traffic, so maybe they will not be persuing such carriers in the future.
Interesting what Tony Lavan said in the interview about if they provide the right routes they will fill them, maybe they will work more closely with the local business' in future.
|
|
|
Post by Humberside on Feb 4, 2009 13:55:50 GMT
No Brussels Airlines franchises. They do regional flights themselves. They were of course Sabena's regional subsidary before Sabena collapsed and they ended up becoming Belgium's main airline
|
|
|
Post by pug on Feb 4, 2009 14:39:45 GMT
Its dissapointing to see such a lack of enthusiasm for people to set up more niche routes. I suppose when Eastern set up the only one they found suitable was ABZ. Does anyone think that the only reason EuroDirect Belgie lasted so long was to see out a contract with Sabena?
Out of interest also who was the MD that got suspended in the 90's from HUY? And why did he get suspended?
|
|
|
Post by john2408 on Feb 4, 2009 21:29:55 GMT
Pug,the MD was John Williams,he was sacked in 1995 for using the airport's seal without the authority of the board, the board at this time were, Humberside C.C. The seal was used on legal documents such as contracts. Mr Williams was alleged to have used the seal, when a company wanted to develop an hotel and business park in 1994.
|
|