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Post by elmfield on Feb 22, 2010 15:12:28 GMT
d2, can we really get away from what has been said or what hasn't been said before. As a long time viewer of EGCN I know just how sycophantic and consequently sterile it has become. I also know that this site operates with more than a modicum of intelligent comment, nor does it delete unpopular comment and , hopefully, here's a bit more for you...perhaps you may be able to understand its significance.
In 2000 two companies produced reports for Doncaster MBC on the likely effects a redeveloped RAF Finningley would have and what its chances of success were. Both reports , naturally enough, are substantial. Here are a few key points:
Yorkshire and Humber was responsible for 6.3 million air journeys. Of this amount 1,428,277 came from South Yorkshire and 887,980 from Humber(side) . I hope you can see what a relatively small market both areas produce, with North and West Yorkshire, producing twice as many passengers. This fact is well known in the aviation world and is responsible for the other main findings. Which are:
That it will be very difficult to encourage scheduled airlines to operate from DSA with such a relatively small hinterland.( which is shared with MAN, EMA,LBA,HUY and, at the time, SZD) 2) With the whole region (Y&H) producing only 340,000 passengers to the whole of the USA a regular transatlantic service is most unlikely. Excepting the possible use of A318/737s flying with limited passenger numbers at high fares ( very much like LCY is doing) 3) Charter flights will doubtless be made but the airport would have to offer heavily discounted charges. 4) Freight is unlikely to develop apart from ad hoc arrangements. EMA is too close and it is next to the motorway network[ whilst DSA is in a "cabbage patch"]
Out of interest at the same time these reports were being produced the following key facts came out of a report about the future of SZD.
Passenger numbers were expected to be around 1.2 million by 2010 ( more than DSA) with scheduled services to around half a dozen European (business) destinations as well as within the UK. The Airport was also expected to be generating £24.9 millions in associated income with 980 jobs. A far cry, indeed, from"finished"!
By the way before you go on anymore about "opinions" and "freedom of speech"...I agree...I have always supported Voltaire!
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pug
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Post by pug on Feb 22, 2010 15:21:46 GMT
Great point Elmfield "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Perhaps we should have that on our account signitures? ;D May i also point out, Humberside, like other airports, does ticket tracing market research. Many people would be surprised with the findings. I think many DSA supporters see HUY as a small threat, with it having KLM and a few charters. My suggestion is to do a bit of digging and see how many of those South Yorkshire pax fly from HUY, then look how many fly from EMA, LBA and MAN. Perhaps you can then concentrate on taking your arguments to their websites too? If you do, i wish you the very best of luck!
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Post by d2 on Feb 22, 2010 15:34:01 GMT
when i 1st came on this site, i asked a simple question. there was no disrepect intended. certain people got on their high horse & saying i wasn't a true HUY supporter. as for all these quotes & figures you're banding around from these " enquiries " , the government likes to quote figures, but at the end of the day, it's what happens on the ground at the end of the day that matters. most people now don't believe any figures the government or enquiries give out. the fact is DSA has got growth this year, HUY hasn't. your moderator confirmed that. EMA had the routes lost by easyjet taken up by other airlines, the same at MAN. the same has not happened at HUY. DSA is still a very young project, as is my own business, but because you've got some bigger competitors out there it doesn't mean you can't succeed. the whole aviation industry has been affected by this recession. DSA is no different to anywhere else. with the predicted growth in air travel, there is no reason why DSA & HUY can't have a healthy future alongside each other. i have said that all along. BAA lost 822million pound last year but that doesn't mean they won't survive. most companies have lost money in this recession. as with my own company, DSA only had a short space of good time before the recession hit.
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pug
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Post by pug on Feb 22, 2010 15:44:41 GMT
d2, the tone of that first post made you sound like you had a chip on your shoulder.
Ok, what makes you think easyjet will work if they pulled out of EMA? Now im sure if i had posted that in such a context i would be on for an onslaught, at least i would expect to come under some attack. I must point out i do not think that is relevent nor do i believe there is any truth in it, i was using it as an example.
We know DSA has had a bad start, but the place was operating at a loss way before the recession, they were effectively paying pax to fly from DSA. As you quite rightly pointed out, they had tried to grow far too quickly so hopefuly, they have cut back on overheads and other such expense to stem the losses. No one is denying that there will be strong growth at DSA though are they? At the same time there should be some growth at HUY. Have you noticed we are to get a 767 on one weekly service this year? Tell me that is down to lack of demand!
Growth, though, says little for the balance books. Remember that LPL has yet to break even then you may realise the struggle DSA could be under unless they make some fundamental changes in their business plan.
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Post by d2 on Feb 22, 2010 15:45:57 GMT
i'm sure pug, it would be interesting to know how many people in the HUY catchment area never use the airport when they fly & use LBA, EMA & MAN or DSA. the fact is, just because you have an airport on your doorstep, doesn't mean you're going to use it. people from the MAN,LBA,EMA,DSA & HUY catchment areas regurlarly travel to Heathrow or Gatwick for their flights. that doesn't mean MAN,LBA or EMA are failing airports though.
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Post by elmfield on Feb 22, 2010 16:01:50 GMT
I have made a significant study of what has happened after Peel bought RAF Finningley ( I still haven't found out how much they paid) My researches have been produced in book form; they have been presented to the Audit Commission and I have addressed the European Parliament on the subject...so I hope you recognise that I am not talking drivel nor are my statistice spurious. What I can say, with absolute certainty, is that the decision to open DSA and to close SCA was politically motivated and fitted in, nicely, with a series of regional development initiatives.
There is another ,related reason but , I fear, this is not the forum on which I would be prepared to reveal it. However, the European Commission do know!
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Post by d2 on Feb 22, 2010 16:02:41 GMT
yes i have noticed. but once again i go back to what ive said before, you're own moderator points out HUY will stagnate this year. the extra capacity left by XL & zoom has been taken up by other airlines at MAN. all the routes except girona, lost by DSA have now been replaced. but BCN is near enough girona. i'm not & have never disputed that HUY makes a profit. there are plenty of other companies out there who get grants to start businesses. i know plenty in my line of work who got a grant to start up. i started without 1, but i don't go round shouting " ooooh they got a grant to start up. that's not fair " i'm afraid life isn't fair & never will be. i'm not saying it's right, but there's no point in letting it eat away at you. "if" jet2 come to humberside, goodluck to them. at the end of the day it's what happens on the ground. has the humberbridge made a profit yet? after how many years? but people still use it.
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Post by d2 on Feb 22, 2010 16:07:58 GMT
i'm afraid the european comission can't bang on about fairness & being to the law. it's run by politicians for god sake.
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Post by elmfield on Feb 22, 2010 16:34:55 GMT
Oh Dear d2...I fear there is little point in continuing this conversation with you. As was once said of the Bourbons, " you forget nothing old nor do you learn anything new"! Look that one up!
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pug
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Post by pug on Feb 22, 2010 17:54:24 GMT
You realy havent a clue have you? That statement itself is absolute drivel.
Oh how true, not that i was denying that, you just have to look at the proximity of DSA to its competitors compared to HUY's. DSA has to win over Sheffield to be a success, unfortunately that city is as near to EMA and MAN is not much further. There is also far better surface transport to these airports than to DSA.
The people of east Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, though many are loyal, still have to travel to LBA, EMA and MAN despite having HUY on their doorstep and DSA around an hour away. People from South Yorkshire still use HUY, though they are a small percentage compared to the other airports.
If you are going to make an argument at least get your facts right first. Id hardly call expansion from BE and increase in capacity on existing routes 'stagnant' unless you have no understanding of the word. In fact there will be growth, OK not as much as DSA, but that is not realy the point is it? There will be growth and the increase in revenue will add to the profitability of the site.
So you are suggesting there IS extra capacity to be exploited, something the development teams and airlines know, hence it hopefuly wont be long before these routes are either taken up again on w patterns or a based operator comes in to offer year round seats, for which demand has always outstripped supply in HUY's case. One thing is for sure, TCX would likely be a strong backer to such a move.
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Post by d2 on Feb 22, 2010 18:14:30 GMT
well good luck to ya! i leave you to grind your axes & let it eat away at you & get bitter & twisted. ooops, thats alredy happened. bye. it's been fun. HEY HO
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Post by pug on Feb 22, 2010 18:21:11 GMT
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Post by expressflight on Feb 23, 2010 8:31:53 GMT
Pug You alarm me when you suggest that d2 may be "an A level student at best". I sincerely hope not as he/she cannot even operate their keyboard sufficiently well to make their posts readable, let alone coherent. I'm not being pedantic, but we all have a duty to use capital letters where appropriate; anything less is simple laziness and reduces the chances of our posts being taken seriously. Mind you d2's last post would make that latter view most unlikely, no matter how good the grammar or punctuation. I wonder what sort of business they run where such sloppy communication skills suffice. No doubt I'll receive a broadside for this but, hey ho, such is life.
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Post by I am off on Feb 23, 2010 9:37:24 GMT
Dear me, you wonder why there is only 56 members on here? I came on this forum as a guest interested to find out more aout my local airport and all I have read is childish abuse, learned nothing new about Huy and that you all hate the airport up the road. Please feel free to poke fun at my grammer, acuse me of being a retard or be the managing director of DSA as I won't be back.
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Post by elmfield on Feb 23, 2010 10:56:50 GMT
Well, after that little lot all I can say is "adieu". I have seldom come across anyone so bombastic, so incapable of debating and, yet who managed to twist everything. Perhaps we might be very careful when we see "guest" again ...unless we want a torrent of infantile abuse! Perhaps he/she is the "Trojan Horse" !
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