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Post by elmfield on Feb 21, 2010 16:41:17 GMT
With the general reduction in passenger numbers it seems that DSA, for the second year running ,is comparable with Bournemouth and Exeter Airports. Is this a likely, continuing scenario and, in the event ,was it worth the investment of over £20 millions in public funding?
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Post by Humberside on Feb 21, 2010 18:04:20 GMT
Easyjet and to a lesser extent Aer Arann/Lingus should mean some strong 'year on year' growth this year. 2009 was a bad year for DSA,but it was for most airports. But the signs of recovery are there
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Post by Anon on Feb 22, 2010 9:39:36 GMT
The management are expecting 1.4 million pax this year, whether that happens remains to be seen, depends how easy and aer lingus perform.
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Post by elmfield on Feb 22, 2010 10:49:38 GMT
Thats really interesting. That will be a 40% increase on 2007 ( 1,074,375 pax) which was, thus far, the Airports best year since opening. To put it another way, since opening each passenger has received something like £5.00 each from European Regional Development Funds ...to say nothing of their share of £millions from the likes of Yorkshire Forward.
"Ah well", you might add, much of the grant money, especially from the ERDF, was aimed at job creation but, I am informed that too is not anywhere nearly so large as was forecast ( but then again few developments ever do create the jobs numbers they promise)
I also have it on good authority that Easyjet aren't expecting miracles out of DSA and Aer Arran/ Lingus are only operating relatively small capacity aircraft so 40% might be a bit rich...time will tell!
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Post by d2 on Feb 22, 2010 10:59:14 GMT
i know some people on here won't like what i'm going to say, but wasn't humberside once local authority owned? how much money did each of the local taxpayers pay towards humberside? i agree, 1.4 million does seem high. easyjet produced the pax figures when they launched the routes. as you say time will tell.
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Post by elmfield on Feb 22, 2010 11:10:33 GMT
I do believe that DSA has received more in EU funding than has any other European Airport development. I doubt HUY,when in the control of its local authorities, would have received such a generous amount of public funding! I will check!
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Post by pug on Feb 22, 2010 11:39:43 GMT
Once again, d2 brings a skewed view into this. 20 million is a huge financial investment, as far as i know it is NOT a loan. If you were to add that to the cost of building SZD (and then selling it for a squid) then it would appear South Yorkshire has seen inproportionate funding with the rest of the uk regions in air travel.
The difference between HUY, d2, is that it was built as a regional airport by the local authorities. It was not built on a load of Bull S*** about long-haul flights under the pretence of being a 'major airport' when it is unlikely to muster much more than BOH can.
1.4 million? Where that come from? All depends what sleazyjet do at winter i suppose... Theres even a chance they go seasonal. Dont forget they have not committed to base at DSA.
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Post by Anon on Feb 22, 2010 12:07:42 GMT
1.4 million I agree does seem to be a bit fanciful but thats what there saying.
Look, how and why dsa is there can be debated until the cows come home. The fact is its there whether people like it or not.
"Sleazyjet" is going to either work and they will stay and expand or after there two year deal is over they will bugger off. However at least Peel have got them there albeit it clearly on a good deal . Should Mag approach Jet2 along similar lines with a 737 out of East mids for Huy? I think they should sooner rather that later as IF (and its a big if) easy do expand and base at dsa it will be harder to attract a jet2 or more flybe flights to huy
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Post by d2 on Feb 22, 2010 12:22:30 GMT
well pug, i'm sure it wouldn't take many years taxpayers money to invest 20million into humberside. did we get all the money invested back when it was sold on? as for long haul flights, so whats Barbados, dom republic, Florida? just remind me, how many does HUY have? on the subject of enquiries, we all know how reliable the information that comes out of enquiries is, don't we. Iraq!!! i said in my previous post 1.4million was high. i don't know where that person got that figure from, as i haven'y seen any mention of that figure anywhere. Sleazyjet eh pug? who's skewing things now? don't like what you hear so you resort to insults. as for a base, you'll find most of the flights start at dsa & finish back there at night. having compared prices on the easyjet site between Luton & Dsa on the same routes, dsa's fares are comparable to lutons at the min.
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Post by elmfield on Feb 22, 2010 12:52:57 GMT
I have always found that the strong supporters of DSA seem to have an inbuilt inability to consider other points of view...and I speak with some past real face to face experiences...and not obtained from any forum. I agree,DSA is there for real. Its promoters promised the other local authorities in SY no end of positive plus points if they publically supported the application at the Public Enquiry. Sadly, these remain largely unfulfilled....excepting the unrelated growth of the Business Park! DSA has received an inordinate amount of public funding ...in the form of grants...not loans. SZD is a totally different matter. The land was reclaimed after years of use as a steelworks spoil heap. Contamination with heavy metal residue was a problem especially after Budges failure ( Budge was contracted to build and run SZD in exchange for removing untold millions of tons of open-cast coal...The coal went and so did Budge ). The SDC was then left with finding a new developer. The EU granted close on £6 millions for infrastructure work, and we ( the public purse) paid out around £20 million in levelling and decontaminating the land which now forms the basis of Peel's Business Park. Not a bad acquisition for a quid was it? As for Easyjet, my understanding , which comes from one of their Senior pilots, is that they are cutting back on bases and that the addition of DSA will be as a w pattern from LPL. Perhaps this is wrong...if so, I will let him know!
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Post by d2 on Feb 22, 2010 13:14:15 GMT
DSA's supporters have an inability to take on others views? ? well i got to say, judging by some people on here you lot can;t talk. your own moderator confirms in reply1 that DSA will have strong growth this year. are you now saying you don't believe his figures? as i have said before, i am a supporter of BOTH airports & veiw both forum sites. it has to be said, i see none of the bitchiness aimed at HUY on that forum that i see here, aimed towards DSA. it can only be 1 thing. that is jealousy. Faro departs 0620 arrives back 1255 prague departs 0825 arrives back 1305 amsterdam departs 1350 arrives back 1655 barcelona departs 1720 arrives back 2300 palma departs 1720 arrives back 2320
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Post by d2 on Feb 22, 2010 13:28:20 GMT
AMS daily, BCN 4x weekly, FAO 4x weekly, PMI 3x weekly, PRG 3x weekly. by my reckoning that means all flights start at DSA & finish at DSA.
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Post by elmfield on Feb 22, 2010 13:47:04 GMT
d2...your unfortunate attitude, self evidently,confirms my earlier statement.
"Jealousy" is a pretty childish word and one that I have seen bandied around an awful lot on the dedicated EGCN site. I try to be intelligent and bring forward reasoned arguments...borne out by facts wherever possible. I am not in with slanging matches which , I fear, is what you seem to want. However, in the hope you might be receptive to argument here are a few facts of which I am sure the many real HUY supporters can add to:
1)Kirmington was acquired in 1974 by the local council for £85,000. 2)They then spent £170,000 improving the runway and building a small terminal. 3)In 1999 MAG ( iself owned 100% by 10 local authorities who make up Greater Manchester) acquired 82.7% of HUY for £10 million pounds... which went back into the local authorities coffers. 4) They have returned a profit every year, sometimes as high as £1.6 million and still have retained profits of £640,000.
HUY is the second biggest heliport in the UK, employs some 700 people and is home to 5 aero clubs as well as being the destination for both scheduled and charter airlines. It is a well thought of asset and supported by both its local communities as well as by the local authorities.
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Post by d2 on Feb 22, 2010 14:28:08 GMT
yes, & there is such a thing as freedom of speech & everyone is entitled to their own opinion. i guess you're allowed an opinion on here as long as it's the same as everyone elses. i must say, i spend equal time viewing both forums & have NEVER seen any nastiness directed at HUY. before you say i don't read the posts. i do!!!!! as i said previously, your own administrator talks of " strong " growth at DSA this year. in reply1. which is what this forum is all about. are you trying to say i'm not intelligent? you have never met me, you don't know what i do for a living, nor what kind of person i am!!!!. i am entitled to contribute to a DISCUSSION on these forums without abuse!! i haven't resorted to insulting people!!!. my first post on this site was a question!! it obviously wasn't liked by some people on here. it's strange how your moderator answered my question politely & saw it as how it was meant to be. thankyou for those figures elmfield, they are interesting.
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Post by pug on Feb 22, 2010 14:37:25 GMT
With respect, Jet2 had already announced a base at EMA before EZY pulled out, the strength of relations between LS and MAG should not be taken lightly, although i know this does not garantee routes i do know that HUY is one of the airports being/ has been considered seriously from Jet2. I promise you that info was from within the airline and not from HUY! They have openly said they will never use DSA for anything other than diversion/training because it is in the wrong place. If you believe that Jet2 see EZY as major crippling competition they are unlikely to have based at BLK, they have a strong market cornered and will serve it. XL worked very well at HUY and there is nothing to suggest LS would be any different should they ever decide to come in. I would hold back on BE expansion too, remember they have smaller aircraft which can break even with a very low load compared to EZY. I would suggest that they would have a much better chance of working at DSA or HUY on routes other than sun routes or major city destinations, and at better frequencies too. I would suggest that there is more of a risk of BE pulling out of DSA now, as surely some expansion from EZY will be to where they know, i.e BFS and JER. Could suggets why they are to run BHD from HUY.
Suggesting that Easyjet would have an effect on Jet2 at HUY is perhaps whimsicle. Jet2 have as much a brand as Easyjet in this region now, after some very effective advertisement campaigns. If you were to suggest an airline which that would be considered competition at DSA would be Thomson, as that would be the market Jet2 would be aiming at should they come in to HUY. We have seen it at LBA, TOM pulled out to centre their Yorkshire operations at DSA, this gap quickly swallowed up by Jet2. The same happened at HUY leaving a big hole to be filled.. I am lead to believe that talks between airport and airline have fallen through a couple of times previously, and that was not the airline not willing to operate but the airport concerned about competition with other routes. If this is true, which i fully believe it is, then you have to admire the management for holding a tough line... As i said though, talks have been held again recently according to two unconnected sources, will have to wait and see on that one.
Elmfield is correct in what he says, the difference is HUY was built to serve a small region with strong niche market. DSA was built to be 'major' airport after confidence from the LPL expansion (much of which Peel did not instigate) and their major selling point was the big runway. d2 is quite right, it has handled long-haul, perhaps i should have made myself clearer, at the time there was silly talk of scheduled flights to New York etc... I know Toronto was tried and failed miserably, the catchment area simply is not big or diverse enough. Look at what happened to Shaheen and later PIA! As it happens though, HUY also has the cruise flights which DSA has, only difference being that they dont go direct, still doesnt prove anything about demand.
DSA will not be a base for EZY, more an outstation at best. You have to remember why the pulled the plug on EMA, they only have big bases. EMA had 2/3 based aircraft and they had too much competition so expansion was limited. Reason Peel managed to attract them? Well, of course EZY had left this side of the Pennines so it makes sense to go to DSA, secondly (this comes from airline employee) notice how they announced another based aircraft at MAN on the same day, they supposidly have a restrictive contract with Peel and fairly limited expansion prospects from LPL. Its seen more as a sweetner.
Must remember that EZY crews will be most likely night stopping, someone has to pay HOTAC. As far as im aware the aircraft will be rotated at AMS, so it may not be the same aircraft at DSA every day. Still i never said it wouldnt work, just that if they were to expand its not likely to result in a proper base like at LPL or NCL.
Insult? more like harmless affectionate nickname for an airline i use at least twice a year! How is that any relation to skewing 'things', rather you nitpicking because you cant support your argument.
d2, we all have a right to an opinion, and we all have a right to disagree with them and tear them apart. You have scuppered your own argument there. No one has insulted you, you feel insulted yourself because people dont agree with you. There has been inconsiderate and narrow minded views from the begining of 'finairweb' right through to egcn (Humberside news gets deleted) and whilst i cannot complain about the way that website is run, it does make you wonder if that site is averse to different views. Thank Humberside for allowing this thread to even exist on this forum... Free speech is great innit ;D
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